Cryptos

[onewingedangel3]

rhyme time

After trying about 10 different ciphers with probably a hundred keywords, I'm beginning to think this is a one time pad. I need smaller handwriting. I went through like a ream of paper.

[kuang]

One time pads can be proven to be unbreakable, when used correctly, so it probably isn't one of those. My suspicion was that it was a running cipher using a nursery rhyme as a key- I've tried a few using the tabula recta as reference, but haven't come up with anything yet.

[onewingedangel3]

It was actually a joke, kuang. Lol. Maybe we're thinking too hard

[Ya_Ya_Wateva]

yes maybe

[Jase]

ok ... i thought i had a break throu ... using a running key and "jack and jill went up the hill to" as the keytext as they both have 26 letters ... then using the numerical value based on a=0 z = 25 subtract the ciphertext from the keytext but nada so far ... even harder as the subtracting can be varying numbers ... ie. 25-15 could either be read as 25-15 or 2-1, 5-5

EDIT: also tried as a=1 z = 26 still no go

[jward1980]

Just searched google or "louis and marie" and got back a load of pages about Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI and in particular Marie Antoinette's cipher she used for sending messages around Europe, it's apparently a simple substitution cipher, but being new the the decoding world I don't know it.

Anyone got any ideas?

[Jase]

thats whyat we have been looking at with reference to jack and jill nursery rhyme ... it was supposedly written about them.

[kuang]

Marie Antoinette was knows to use at least three ciphers, but the precise details aren't known for any of them. One was based on Porta's work, one was inspired by a novel and one was polyalphabetic based on a series of randomly constructed letter pairs.

[pkticker]

Marie Antoinette was knows to use at least three ciphers, but the precise details aren't known for any of them. One was based on Porta's work, one was inspired by a novel and one was polyalphabetic based on a series of randomly constructed letter pairs.

Man, I had hoped that taking a couple of days off from this thing would mean that I would come back to find you guys had all but solved it! Oh well... I was trying the porta-based cipher with every possible Jack-and-Jill related keyword I could think of (though I didn't think to try the entire rhyme itself), but I couldn't come up with anything.

I'm with you guys - I think we might be overthinking this thing... I was doing searches through scholarly databases when I realized that some people might not even have access to those databases, which is when I realized I was going overboard.

My brain is frying, and it's just the second day of the new year!

[kuang]

I have to admit, I'm stumped. I'm either just not thinking this through properly or haven't stumbled on the right lines of enquiry.

[lab rat]

same here.
this is sooooooooo frustrating.

[Jase]

thats great Gents ... Sounds like my comp ... and i always use notebook on here so i can save all my details ... have all the templates as well ... never know when you are gonna need em

[pkticker]

Invertible Matrix Multiplication? What kinda scam is this?!?

It does make it easier... and I AM a Virgo

I just don't understand this stupid Hill Cipher. I don't get how they're doing the maths in it. How on earth does (6 24 1)(0) = (67) ?!?!?! I get how (67) = (15), but not how the first part = 67. If you do that part the same way to get the 15 then you end up with 66, not 67. Maybe someone made a mistake in the math??

HELP!!

ETA: ok, this cipher is WAY too time consuming on its own, let alone trying multiple keywords with it. I'm doubting this is the way to go.

Cryptos? Please feel some pity on those of us who've indulged in too much turkey and alcohol over the holidays to be able to think cleary just yet. Can we have another hint on what to do?

*2 40 pounders of Vodka = GOOD*
*1 grrl who hasn't drank for about a year = VERY LOW TOLERANCE*
*consumed in 3 days = PRETTY GOOD*
*2 40 pounders + 105lb's + low tolerance = 1 PRETTY DURNED DRUNK GRRL!*

I get that part of it, I think:

(6 24 1) and (0) (2) (19) (I can't figure out how to write them in a column) work out like this: 6x0 + 24x2 + 1x19 = 67.

You do that same operation with each of the rows in the matrix. Then, you have to make the answer work in Mod26, which means it has to be a number between 0 and 25 (because in Mod26, 26 = 0: I know this from taking a class in atonal music, where we used Mod12 because there are 12 notes in the chromatic scale). So you have to keep subtracting 26 from the number until it is below 26. So, 67 - 26 = 41, 41 - 26 = 15.

My problem is, apparently, in order to decipher this thing, you have to multiply everything by the inverse of the matrix. There are two problems with this. A) what the crap is the inverse of the matrix? and B) in order to know what the matrix is, we have to know the key... which we haven't been able to find.

Like you, I am about 99% convinced this thing is not the way to go. The other 1% of me is formulating a plan to throw my computer out the window and go back to an abacus.

[Cryptos]

I'm not giving any more hints out until I finish the next level, but I can tell you that you're using the right cipher (all you need is the right matrix key).

[pkticker]

I stand corrected. *sighs* But what do we do when no one understands HOW to figure out how to DO the durned cipher to decipher it?!?!?!

Cryptos has turned mean in the new year. That's my take on it.

Of course I'm just kidding, Cryptos! Please don't take it out on us with impossible ciphers!!!!!! (Wait, he already has, oh no!!!!)

Maybe there is a website somewhere called "Hill Cipher for Dummies?"

Like I said, I think, given a key matrix, I could figure out how to encipher something. But until I get my brain around the inverse matrix deal, I don't think I can figure how to decipher anything.

Well... it's off to Google for me. Whoohoo.